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It’s the law, stupid

Personally, I am sick to the back of my eyeballs with this claim that we have the level of gang violence in this city, no in this country, because of depravation. That is complete and utter bollocks.

If organised criminal gangs were deprived then there would be no need for the likes of the Criminal Assets Bureau, as they would have no assets to seize. These people are not deprived.

Depravation could theoretically be blamed if there was a sharp rise in people knocking over old ladies for their pension, or shoplifting, but you cannot blame ten murders on depravation.

This is organised crime, and it is going to continue until people get their heads out of their asses and start talking about the real cause, the law and the judiciary.

The following are just some ideas on how to tackle the situation the country finds itself in.

Awareness of the Garda Confidential Telephone Line

The garda confidential telephone number is 1800 666 111. People who really feel disgusted by drug dealers in their neighbourhood can easily pick up the phone in their own home and report them. That way they don’t have to worry about been seen walking into a Garda station or talking to a guard. What needs to be done here is a public awareness campaign of this number, on local radio, on TV and in the newspapers. The likes of 95FM and the Limerick Leader should consider placing the number in their paper and ask people to reclaim the city from the criminals.

Zero tolerance for small offences

Anyone found to be loitering, giving passers by on the street lip, or vagrancy should be lifted by the Gardai and charged with public order offences. This would clear the streets of intimidating characters and make the city a better place to go to.

Concurrent sentencing

In short, get rid of them. Someone breaks one window, they get four months, they break ten windows, they get forty months. Concurrent sentences are pointless. “Ah sure I’m going to get four months for robbing this house, I might as well rob the rest of the street as I can serve the four months for each of them at the same time.”

The selection of judges

The reason judges in this country are so out of touch with reality is because the people who select them are out of touch with reality. Electing judges is not an option as their desire to be re-elected would take priority over the fair administration of justice. The decision on who should be judges should be opened up to both the political arena as well as the legal profession and the Gardai. Maybe even have redired Gardai eligable to take up the position as a judge.

RICO

The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act was introduced in the United States to tackle organised crime and well, racketeering. Put simply, if a person, or more importantly a group, say for example a crime family, are convicted of two of a list of 37 offences within a ten year period, they can be jailed for up to 20 years. More on the RICO act can be found on Wikipedia.

The Special Criminal Court

The special Criminal Court was set up as a non-jury court to deal with subversive elements in this country. The court was set up to prevent the intimidation of jurors in these cases. The remit of the Special Criminal Court should be extended to cover organised criminal gangs as well. I would have mixed feelings about convicting someone of being a member of any illegal organisation based on the word of one senior Garda though, so not all legislation designed to tackle subversives is good.

Legal Aid

The legal aid system should only be availible to people who are out of work and have no assets. Anyone with flash cars and houses should not be allowed to avail of this. If a defendant wins their case they can always claim for costs.

Internment

It is not a move I would support, however as many loud voices are calling for it I think I would include it in the list as an option. There is no justification for locking someone up for crimes they are likely to commit, It is better to lock them up for long periods if they commit a number of crimes from a set list over a period of time, as is the case with the RICO act listed above.

This entry was posted on Wednesday, April 9th, 2008 at 2:02 am and is filed under All. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

  • PaddyAbroad
    As an Irishman living in Amsterdam (left in 80's) it upsets me greatly to hear read of scum like these people blackening the name of Limerick. I have no solutions and can only offer my support to people like yourself engaged in trying to find solutions.

    I have an observaton however and I offer it respectfully....nobody but the state is able to take these people on. Nobody has the resources to combat them except the state. I am sure that our beloved TD and Ministers are engaged but their engagement needs to be forced to an entirely different level...the people of the housing estates affected should simply refuse to pay all manner of local bills, rates, TV license etc. etc. until the authorities engage in a manner as yet unseen in Limerick. There was a similar problem in Rotterdam and the police, politicians and authorities paid lip service to the concerns of local people...in fact, the 'involvement' of politicians, police and the politically correct brigade so enraged the local poeple that they decided to act for themselves....the situation was transformed almost overnight. You give the state every reason to act (and money and taxation is the only way to get their attention....money grabbing bastards that they are) and you will see how quickly they move. If the police and the CAB were able to sort out Gilligan and his like, they can sort out these bastards too....all that is missing is the political will.

    Thereafter it is up to the decent people of Limerick to take a hand in their own affairs...poverty is not an excuse. There was many a better man than I came from poorer circumstance than exist today in Limerick....yes people need help but they need to be freed to help themselves and they can do that without the PC brigade that play the race card at every opportunity.
  • Jorden
    The Dundons are not Travellers the McCarthy are not full Travellers they're only half their father was a Traveller but nancy was not Traveller women they lived the life as settled people. The Casey are really Travellers.

    So you have the facts now
  • Pat
    Hello,

    I am looking for past editions of the Limerick Leader newspaper. I would really appreciate if someone that collects the paper would contact me by either phone or email. Mob number: 085 7485174. email: ps-2010@hotmail.com

    Regards
    Pat
  • kimmy
    marion, i think if you do have this kind of information, then this is not the most appropriate place to say it.

    One boy is already dead because of these people thinking he would talk.

    Please don't provoke these vermin to panic, and kill another child.
  • marion
    there not all family members. theres about a dozen go for involved with them the main players in the gangs are all shagging several women and pillow talk hs brought down a lot of people of course they wont put these informers on the witness stand but you would be very suprised at how valuable some of there information is. for example who are they meeting with. phoning. many other small things that can make a bigger picture believe me the cops are very clever they will take them down eventually. the already have a lot of them doing very long sentences
  • Squid
    How do you infiltrate a gang that is centred around the family. The IRA and the likes were easy to infiltrate as someone could pretend to be a nationalist but how do you pretend to be a family member.
  • marion
    to me.
    because the the pressure on the weston mob is now so great that the are blundering and doing things with no logic. the cab office is also on their heels and i believe their days are numbered they are all turning on one another. i have been told from a vey reliable source that theres a mole in their gang . so i feel its coming to an end.
  • me
    marion

    What makes you think it's coming to an end? I don't see it getting any quieter.

    "Would i be right in saying the appear more violent than the keane-collopy gang."

    Yes but that's not saying much.
  • marion
    yes corkman.
    the dundon mcarthy gang are completetly depraved. unintelligent.and have no happiness in their lives they are something like the krays but worse. the collopys are smarter more buisness minded as are some of the keane mob. but it all seems to be coming to an end now. thank god for great cops like jim brown and chief super. willie keane
  • CorkMan
    Is the Hyde Road the heart of those McCarthy-Dundom scums teritory.Would i be right in saying the appear more violent than the keane-collopy gang.
  • me
    Hoof, I'm intrigued, can you give us some more? The sooner we as a people get rid of these diseases the better.
  • Squid
    There was a brief mention of people leaving the country in this morning's independent. if that answers your question.

    Don't know what is going on in west limerick though.
  • Hoof
    Good stuff, Bock. There was a real danger of dewey eyed romanticising there for a minute. Originally from the Hyde Road area myself and I can't begin to describe how much that entire neighbourhood has been transformed for the worse in the last decade especially. As someone who enjoyed every minute of growing up in such a vibrant area among some of the best people I will ever know, it saddens me to see what a relatively few pricks have turned it into.

    ...and speaking of depressing bastards.....

    Anyone got an update on the supposed movement to the UK of some prominent members of the Dundon gang. Is a storm brewing from a certain town to the far west of Limerick that has caused the hard men to fly the coop?

    Also CAB are supposed to have seized a number of properties in the Prospect & Weston area tonight (according to Newstalk).
  • BockTheRobber
    They're definitely not travellers, since they never travelled. They will, however, claim to be travellers when it suits them.

    This particular family were always outlaws, with no regard for society at large and no respect for anyone. As long as I can remember, they've been causing trouble in our town, taking without giving anything back.

    There used to be a nightly drunken fight around their caravans in the Mungret Street area until the Corporation gave them houses. That was since the time I was a small child, and I'm very old now. In a disturbing precursor of what's proposed with regeneration, they were rehoused in quiet areas like Hyde Road and immediately began to terrorise their neighbours, as their descendants continue to do until the present day.

    In the old days, they often worked hard. Some of them delivered coal, others collected scrap, but then they discovered easier ways to earn money. Nowadays, if you meet their grandchildren in the street, they'll push you out of their way if you're lucky, and knife you for fun if you're not.

    If they get caught, they'll drive to the court in their new BMW 4x4 and John Devane will apply for legal aid on their behalf.
  • Judaism follows the maternal line. If your mother is Jewish you may be considered Jewish. Are you a Traveller simply because your mother was a Traveller? I think this was the line Rosin may have been treading.
  • Shannaboley
    Seriously Kate, it would be predjudice we are all from the same race.
  • Roisin
    Hadn't known the Traveller line went through the maternal side, Horse. I'll have to take another look at the family tree.

    In the meantime, it will be interesting to discover what impact the fact that those involved are settled Travellers will have on how the problem will be sorted.
  • kate
    Racists
  • horse
    is that supposed to be some sort of wisecrack rosin? I suppose now that some people have mention the 'T' word youre goin to accuse them all of 'racism'. Someone asked the question are they from the traveling community, and the answer is yes they are 'settled' members.
  • There is one side of "The Problem" that gets very little mention. The, allegedly, 60 individuals that are at the centre of this are said to be involved in the "lucrative" drugs trade. Well they are not just selling it to each other which means that the are a lot of decent people funding these individuals activities from the casual dope smoker to the middle class girl powdering her nose in the Trinity Rooms.
    If are one of these people and want to help, go buy your stuff in Galway, Dublin and Cork and just maybe we might find a way out of this.
  • Roisin
    So, they're Jewish travellers?
  • inside out
    yes they are, their mother ic mccarty, she is a traveller
  • Agnes
    the Dundons are not travelers
  • arse_over_tits
    Fish,
    Your dead right the buck need to stop with the parents until the kids/youths are old enough to pay their own way.
    Thats the way it used to be...when i grew up if i stepped out of line my parents invariably found it and then i really found out about it!

    This invincible attitude that youngsters have knowing the law cant touch them is a disgrace and the parents are exploiting it in a lot of cases......the parents of out of control kids need to be hit in the pockets when their little johnny steps out of line...their welfare should be stopped or if their working they should be fined.
  • KENNEDY PARK AND PROUD OF IT
    i know the family im talking about and we are only talking about a boy who is only 8 and very intelligent in class unlike one of his parents, this boy was not as you say masquerading nor trying to be macho he was innocently speaking his mind like all children do,this boy has a chance in life as far as education but in the family home and their reputation this guy has no hope
  • Squid
    He was probably being a smart arse . you only have to look around bebo to see pages of kids from Limerick masquerading as gangsters only to find that they are not.

    Unfortunately some kids think it is cool to come from a place with souch a "tough guy" reputation.
  • KENNEDY PARK AND PROUD OF IT
    i never said that he asked the question during his confession if the truth be known he said it to the priest in front of many people while the teachers were organising the pupils
  • Squid
    How does he know what the boy asked the priest if what is asked in confession is supposed to be confidential.
  • KENNEDY PARK AND PROUD OF IT
    THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT MONKEY DO WHAT MONKEY SEE YOU CANT CHANGE THESE PEOPLE ,THEY ARE FROM THE SAME MOULD AND UNTIL THAT MOULD IS BROKEN AND DISREGARDED WE WILL ALWAYS BE COMMENTING ON THE SAME TOPICS.WHAT WAS ALWAYS CONSIDERED AS A CONDENSED FAMILY FEUD IS BULL THIS SITUATION HAS GROWN MORE THAN THE AUTHORITIES WILL ADMIT AND THEY ARE AFRAID TO DO SO .WHAT CHANCE DO ORDINARY FOLK HAVE IF THEY WANT TO REPORT ANYTHING THAT MAY INCUR IN THEIR EVERY DAY LIVING WHEN THEY DO NOT GET SUPPORT FROM OUR SO CALLED PROTECTORS.LASTLY ON A SAD AND MAYBE SOME MAY CONSIDER HUMOUROS NOTE MY SIBLING WENT TO CHURCH LAST NIGHT FOR FIRST CONFESSION ONE BOY ASKED THE PRIEST WAS IT A SIN TO CARRY A GUN IN HIS SCHOOLBAG ON THE WAY TO SCHOOL FOR HIS DAD MOST OF THE PARENTS WERE NUMB THE REST AGREED WITH THE FATHER WHEN HE SAID THAT "SURE ID BE LOCKED UP IF THEY FOUND IT ON ME".I WENT HOME AND SAIS A PRAYER FOR THAT INNOCENT AT THE MOMENT YOUNG BOY.............FACT.
  • Squid
    Why is it relevant?
  • Mushy
    On behalf of Galwayman I'd like to ask is it true that the McCarthys and Dundons are settled families. Happy now,Kate.
  • fish
    I have read a lot of the comments above and we are on about the next generation of kids letting them have a chance. Its the parents at fault, how can any child stand a chance when they are being told from an early age that bastard killed your father you have to avenge your fathers death, uncle, cousin, or a so called best friend. This is where it has started for those kids at HOME, comming from their loving mothers. It makes me sick. The women are worse than any man in this fued, as a woman myself i believe the raring of children is mostly done by the mothers its their responsibility to make sure the kids are where they should be, they should no if little tommy is gone to the shop, playing next door or gone football training. But no when little tommy smashes a window or gives cheek to the elderly neighbour, its my tommy no couldnt of been him he has been in all night so fuc off. So in my opinion this will not end until something is done about the so called PARENTS. Why not start locking them up for not being able to control the kids, then when that is done and the kids are put into foster care they get the chance of seeing a different side of life, and maybe after seeing the parents jailed and seeing the other side of life it could maybe just make them think long and hard.
  • BockTheRobber
    Squid, my remark is directed at Kate's comment, not at what you said.
  • Squid
    that last comment was to bock the robber.
  • Squid
    Hold up a second. I said he was sailing close to the wind, which is not an out right accusation . That is my belief because the ethnicicity of the people involved is irrelavent.
  • Bill Stone
    Hi,

    The previous blogger, Tibet made some excellent points. I agree with the ideals of poor parenting as the main contributing factor for young people getting involved in crime.

    From my point of view there are 2 aspects that must be considered, the age old fator of prevention and retribution.

    Prevention is a complex issue. As Tibet mentioned the current crop of 15-25 yr olds are more or less a lost generation, they are inducted in the format of lifestyle that they may not be able to break out of.
    I believe that the parenting and family and community support sturctures should be supported by local authorities, government, etc.

    Coupled with this comes the iron fist. The laws are already in place to deal with drug dealing, gun crime, anti-social behaviour. The judicary and the Gardai just need to target these guys and bring them down, bit by bit, it will take years but it has to be done.
  • John
    'Depraved' doesn't have the same meaning as 'deprived'
  • John
    Depraved Deprived
  • BockTheRobber
    I didn't notice anyone making generalisations about travellers. I thought he just asked if the D&Ms were travellers.

    Back in the days when the word "tinker" wasn't a term of abuse, I well remember the McCarthys were known by that term and accepted it.

    The strange thing is, they never travelled. Until it was demolished, they lived for generations in the old Croom Mills building on Mungret St. Then they moved into caravans for a while until the Corporation rehoused them.

    Who remembers John the Man's mother, Bridgie Mccarthy, drinking in Joe Malone's? Old Mrs McCarthy was very popular and we all used to buy her a pint when we could afford it, but she had so many knife scars on her face, she looked like Sitting Bull. I think Bridgie would be these guys' great-grandmother.
  • Hoof
    Kate. Just to put you right.

    Dundons, McCarthys, Caseys, Keanes, etc....all first and/or second generation traveller. Check it out. It's even in the morning papers today. No ones making it up, so what the fuck are you trying to play some "racist" card in this for? Some of them have been well able to run up to Pavee Point, the local media and RTE / TV3 in order to drum up support against "police brutality" or "deprivation" when it suited them. So they don't seem to have any issues.

    That doesn't exactly brand the entire traveller community no more than a list of (what term do I use here to placate the uber-sensitive PC mentality)..Irish! drug gangs as representative of the general community does it?. No different really to than your own branding of everyone here as "racist".

    Anyway if you've seen the fortresses these people live behind, traveller is the last bloody description that would come to mind.
  • Shannaboley
    Yes America is violent! and drug ridden! but you may outbeat us in murders per capita.No we do not have a very corrupt police force! we have damn good beat cops and detectives, like everything else our scale is soo much larger therfore our corruption seems larger. Our crimes are larger the guns are larger the drug loads are larger the sentences are larger the prisons are larger the inmate population is larger.Our president is a larger asshole than everyone elses.Unfortunately limerick has gotten so bad that the police force has to pick its battles and 300 bucks worth of pot may not be on the top of the agenda. Obviously I would be very sad to see shannaboley rd go to the drug dealers! I dont live there I can't say how dangerous a situation it is.
  • Sporty
    wanderingsodacake - you should be really proud of yourself! If only there were more like you! I completely agree with you - it is up to the parents to instill a sense of responsibility for actions in their children, starting when they're still very young. you should be grateful to your parents for the chances they have given you, and future generations!
  • arse_over_tits
    John, if we spent a week walking to dublin we'd come back and all our stuff would be nicked...I agree with you tho, people need to take to the streets.
  • inside out
    just herd a leading member of the dundon-mccarty gang was arrested last nite in dublin tryin to flee to the uk not sure if its ture but only time will tell.
  • John
    What is needed IMHO is grasses. Without the "snitch" nothing can be done. Who brought down the mafia in the US? It wasn't the FBI it was the rats that turned on them. The people need to encourage snitches, the govt need to put bounties on these hoodlums, offer rewards for information that leads to a conviction instead of false promises of anonimity and access to a hotline that everyone knows will not work.
    People are in this for the money, if they are offered money to provide information then maybe, just maybe some poor soul will be willing to come forward with the hope of redemption and finally a chance at life where they can look at themselves in the mirror.

    Where is interpol in all this? Why are the traffickers not been charged by interpol for transporting drugs/weapons internationally? After all Opium is not grown in vast poppy fields in west clare is it?

    The true reality of the situation is that you have many high ranking influential business men and women along with politicians who enjoy a line or two of coke every now and again and they are in danger of being exposed if these big wigs are brought down. We all know that after the Mahon tribunal that shady dealings surround this government and politicians and that there is no end to their shady dealings. Keeping this in mind it is not too far fetched to think that there are plenty of politicians with skeletons in their closets, content to let the "peasants" get a bullet just as long as it doesn't lose them a vote come the elections.

    My frustration lies in the fact that nothing was done during the last election to oust the Bertie clique and try something new... We should demand that crime be at the top of the agenda. And take to the streets..
    Why not organize a peace march all the way to Dublin? Not just an assembly in Dublin but a weeklong walk by the people of Limerick picking up supporters along the way, if we were to abandon the city for a period of time, just walk out of there and say enough, we don't want to live with these people anymore, maybe we could attract international press to cover the issue and embarass the govt and court system for what it is. A complete and utter joke.
  • carlos
    phone the gguards to tell them about drug pushing in your street. theres about 5 drug dealers operating in shanabooly road ballynanty people are phoning the guards all the time telling them about the buyers pulling up buying drugs some of it heroin not once did the law raid any opf these houses and i will tell you why because they would only get about 300 hundred euros worth of drugs . they dont keep large amounts at any one time so the cops think no point in arresting them because they will say its for their own use and only get a fine i can tell you if this was happeng in a private area where some guards live they would be arrested in one week. as for america dont make me laugh its the most violent drug ridden country in the world. highest number of prisoners in the world. a very corrupt police force. the solution to the drugs problem is to arrest the users
  • wanderingsodacake
    I am from a so called poor area. I have a cert, an advanced diploma and a degree. My parent were far from wealthy. I hung around with a lot of people who either have already or are currently in prison. They had the same opertunities I had but didn't choose to avail of them. The key difference I think was that if I got in trouble my parents really let me know about it. Dropping out of school was simply not an option and never entered my head. There was pressure to get to college straight after the leaving doing anything at all. There's a course there for everyone no matter what points you have. I didn't want to go at all. I did a year and convinced the parents that I can now go back whenever I want so I got to take a year out. Believe me though I was sent out working for that year and after six months the questions started about me going back in September. It was all subtle but effective. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that at those ages all I wanted to do was go nuts, my mother knew this and allowed it to an extent but made sure that I was getting pointed in the correct direction at the same time. Compare that with the guys who went to jail. Those guys were out all night and never got in trouble at home. Run of the land. Came home in squad cars for minor things and were out playing the same day.

    Sorry for the rant but my point is that the blame lies with the parents.
  • tibet
    I have been of one firm ideology for the past few years now. I worked in Moyross Community Enterprise Centre for just short of a year and came to really see the issues facing a lot of these families.

    Firstly, it is entirely fair to say that the majority of the people living in these disadvantaged areas are decent folk who work hard to keep their kids on the straight and narrow. Thats old news. There are however probably 100 families or so in the whole of Limerick that have involvement through one member of their family or through the whole brood that are involved in feuding related activities. Undoubtedly the Gardai have the names of each and every one of these dicks. They know whats going on and who the key players are. Unfortunately, these key players, despite their inability to write their names (generalisation) are very cute when it comes to commiting crime and escaping the law. Most of these guys & girls feel absolutely in charge of the city. They have no fear whatsoever. Primarily because so few of them have been caught. However there is the awful sense of

    1 Your in the gang and going to work for the godfather or Ill fucking kill
    you
    2 You dare and try and leave the gang or say a word to anyone abour our
    operations and Ill fucking kill you
    3 If you get locked up you fight for the name of the gang or Ill fucking
    have you killed.

    There are kids, mere little tots involved that have no way out. They are literally handcuffed to what the leader says and there is absolutely no escape. Thats scary. Thats mafia style.

    Unfortunately, for the most part, the people over the age of 16 and involved in this warfare are incapable of being salvalged. They are so messed up and brain washed, the chances of bringing normality back to them is extremely slight. However, I see all the kids going to the creche in Moyross, plus so many kids going to Corpus Christi that are still fine. They are young and innocent. However, you could hand pick those that are going to end up as part of all the trouble. This is the generation that we should nurture to steer away from all the troubles.

    My simple thought is, if we could save one full generation from involvement, we can save the lot therafter. If one generation succeeds in life, they then will want the very best for their kids and so on. It would most probably work in a snowball effect.

    As regards the current couple of hundred heroes running the city, I really do not know. There are so many ideas being thrown around from internment to marshall law. Its so hard to tell. Hopefully the system will outweigh them in the balance at some stage soon. It is great however to see the success the gardai have had as of late as regards drug seizures and also the criminal assets bureau working away is a brilliant help.
  • Hoof
    If anyone is listening to the Joe Duffy Show, Devane and this nut priest "Father" terry O'Connell offering their meandering theory on how they want to "mediate".

    I'm almost shaking with rage listening to this pair of pricks.

    What do Devane and FOC intend to mediate about and with whom - these scum and their footsoldiers. How to carve up drug dealing territories without resorting to knocking each other off? Set up specific no-go areas where these Scumgangs can rule without any presence? An amnesty, maybe Devane and FOC would like a Nobel Peace Prize thrown in seeing as they're in such backslapping mode?

    Scum come in many forms. Collars and suits included.

    ....show will be available online on RTE site later, worth listening to, just don't have a hammer in your hand or the PC will get it.
  • Kate
    A lot of people here are racists.Not are all travellers are involved in this carry on.Most travellers have nothing to do with this fued.Dont be blaming travellers for this fued.
  • MadMax
    It's time that the organized criminals should start feeling that there is no mercy from police, prosecutors and courts. At the same time poor people from disadvantaged estates should become of more interest from the State. We shouldn't allow the next generation of scum to grow in our society.

    There was an outbreak of organized crime in Poland between 1995 and 2000. Polish police needed to undertake extreme measures when dealing with gangs as there were numerous instances of convicts terrorising courtrooms and prisons. In early 2000 one convicted gang member smuggled in a hand grenade and pistol into the courtroom in a city of Jelenia Gora and situation escalated rapidly into a hostage taking situation after the grnade had been detonated. Members of Polish police ERU like unit came and shot dead non-cooperative convict and wounded another one. Since then Polish judiciary system introduced special courtrooms equipped with bullet proof glass cages for convicts. Some abandoned army barracks were converted into top security court ESPECIALLY for a court case of one gang that had been apprehended around Warsaw area.

    Why writing all of this? Because I think it's time to match the measures to exploding situation in Limerick City. Excuse me, but lawyers volunteering for negotiations between rival gangs sound like a joke. It's time for Polish like measures not situations in which a witness hears upon leaving courtroom "there will be consequenses". Bring in protected witness programme, introduce new identity for gang members willing to cooperate, etc. Do it before it's too late!
  • Mushy
    Where's the anti-traveller rhetoric,Squid? Other than Galwayman asking a question I don't see any reference to them. Asking a simple question,to which the answer is a simple "yes" or "no" is neither for or against anyone. If this is all you're referring to then you're just being overly PC,something which has got completely out of hand.
  • Shannaboley
    Invest time, and yes money into the Children in the low income troubled areas! have the teachers and principals establish which kids have potential and groom them, like the boys and girls clubs here in the states.
    Ten and fifteen years from now you will have kids from moyross and the island becoming cops and more responsible adults in there own social economical background.
    A large # of cops in the bronks and camdon are themselves products of that area, they are not country lads! who have no connection or clue as to what living in these areas actually means.You need to deal with the massive crime element you have right now! but work a hell of a lot harder at helping the next generation to change the cycle!.
  • Squid
    ye are sailing close to the wind with the anti-traveller rhetoric now.
  • Hoof
    Galwayman, that is true, and fairly inbred too.
  • paddy power
    'notanimersonator' is on the money there, garda influence in selesting judges would ultimately become 'interference' as cronies and vested interests take over. Political influence even more so. Its the complete mismanagement of the resources already available that it allowing the problems to continue.

    Yes there is a certain ammount of 'poverty' effects in turning people but in reality its an oversimplification to blame poverty as a root cause. This country was poverty stricken with massive unemployment until about ten years ago, yet we didnt have the same type of thing going on and certainly not to the same extent. If anything people helped each other and such conditions often brought out the best in people and community spirit.

    The massive deployment of gardai to bully and batton charge ordinary decent protestors at Shannon, RossPort and Tara is in marked contrast to the softly softly approach taken towards violent, drug dealing, murdering scumbags, who for the most part are carrying on business as usual right under the noses of the authorities.
  • Topper
    Squid, I agree with you %100 on the conncurrant senticing but you`ve missed the point with the confidential hotline- the gaurds will take your information but can do nothing with it unless you stand up in court and give witness to what you know.
    And in this day and age who in there right mind is going to do that. This is what has Limerick fucked. people are afraid and rightly so.
    Last week a freind of mine rang the gaurds to tell them there was a gang of youths trying to break in to a car in garryowen, they took the car and burned it out. The gaurds never responed to his call.-- Where do we go from there.
  • Hoof
    Some good ideas Squid, and if I may add, some excellent responses and valid points all round.

    If I just stay on your proposals. The Garda Confidential Line - or perhaps one exclusive to Limerick Drug crime - fine. But let's include reporting the drug use at parties, pubs, niteclubs, college, workplaces, etc. in that. Ultimately it's the end user who is creating this problem. If there are no customers the shops will close. Naming and shaming otherwise "respectable" people for using so-called social drugs might increase awareness of the fact that this is not just about gangs fighting for control of neglected housing estates, it's about a multi-million euro business that supplies customers in a very wide geographical and economic range.

    Also in this message a "Reclaim the City" campaign with the Garda number prominent is a good idea. Further to that would you (Squid) consider using one of the banner pics from the site to kick start this, Invite other bloggers and the print media to copy and highlight it on their sites/media?

    Zero Tolerance - yes, and the sooner the Gardai patrol the city on foot in numbers to implement it the better. Saturday in the city centre is like running a gauntlet of thuggish youth. They're easily influenced in the main and are only emboldened when not brought to task. Getting away with giving lip becomes a handbag snatch becomes a mugging...etc. etc.

    Concurrent sentencing - Bad news for certain defence lawyers, good news for us. DO it.

    Judges - For a system that still clings to wigs, silks and robes in a Republic the chances are slight for any change. These guys are stuck in the twilight zone and are unlikely to welcome anyone from the real world into the conclave.

    RICO - a solution that for some some reason no-one in authority dare utter it's name. Unless it's to claim "we don't have enough room in our jails" if we introduce RICO laws. To which I say. There is a downturn in the construction industry and plenty of remote land in the Hills of Donegal or Mayo. I'd have it in tomorrow.

    S C Court - it's already there, lock up the godfathers & Mr. Bigs on the word of a Superintendent, and those notorious ones due for release shortly should be hauled up before it too and fucked back in.

    Legal Aid - Agree 100% with you.

    Internment - last resort, although RICO should be enough in the long term. However with the threat that the D gang are about to either split or have another force from outside Limerick take this to another level because of the Cronin killing, some kind of internment (by another name) may be necessary in the short term - as in this week!
  • Galwayman
    Deprivation my arse. What does deprivation have to do with illiteracy? Public libraries are free. No matter how poor you are you can take your kids in there and get books for them to read, if you give a shit about your kids.

    That's what our parents did, and they didn't have a penny either but none of us turned into thugs like some of the murdering bastards from so-called poor areas today.

    Is it true that the McCarthys and Dundons are Traveller families?
  • BallaBlue
    Agree fully with you Squid more should be done to get these vermin behind bars and when we get them there keep them there for as long as possible and stop pussy footing around them and treat them like the scum that they are.
  • Pat Johnston
    I thought that John Devane's radio intervention this morning was unhelpful. We have long gone past this type of grand standing.
  • Skellig
    Gerry Ryan on 2FM just spoke about this a few minutes ago (the internment thing) and he said something that struck a chord -that the family structure is broken and many of these guys now believe that the family is in fact the gang. Someone many years ago said that there would be trouble down the road with an ever increasing number of fatherless families in Ireland. Now we see the result.
  • Paddy
    I'd agree with you and disagree with you on the deprivation thing. Most of these people don't instantly have the flash cars and materialistics of life when they are born but obviously they have a hunger for these things as they grow up. It's hard to break a cycle of your background, i.e unemployed alcoholic father, abused mother, criminal brothers, lone parent sisters. That sounds like a generalisation but these are the circumstance that most people from deprived areas grow up with, i know this first hand. But on the other hand that doesn't mean you have to become a clone of the idiots you grew up with. Get a job if you want these things out of life, if you don't want to go to college or have no skills there's a 1001 services an unskilled person can offer. Cut grass, start a cleaning services, a waste collection service, a taxi driver or courier. It might be hard work you might even go hungry some weeks but atleast you could sleep at night.
  • Luke
    there is a problem with poor areas, as low soci-economic areas create more criminals, which leads to more crime. this is different then the cab, people form these poor areas will going into crime as they see it as their only option. unemployment in limerick in some areas is as high as 17%.
  • Johnny Rotten
    Thank you Squid, Very well written. I'm sure most people agree (including I) with what you've written. Well done, Johnny.


    (MOD EDIT) done as requested Johnny, i have deleted your other comment as asked
  • Notanimpersonator
    I see where you're coming from Squid, I really do. But I disagree with most of the solutions you've outlined.

    I won't make a long rambling post to make my point. I'll just give one example.

    Judges being appointed where Gardaí have a say in the matter and retired Gardaí becoming judges. Think of the McBreartys, what if the judges were all ex-gardaí or beholden to them (moreso than they are now)?

    The truth of the matter is this is just like the fucking plan for Limerick, where a load of shite that can't be undone is done and the plan itself will be formulated sometime in the future. That's why the shite is constantly hitting the fan and we go from one bloody emergency to another.

    Of all the things you suggested, I agree 100% that concurrent sentencing has to go.

    Other than that, the steps are already in place to tackle these and other issues. The question that should be asked is why isn't this being sorted. There are armed Gardaí all over the shop. The result of which is obvious, the scum have actually escallated, their thumbing their noses at the 'authorities' and they're sending us a not so subtle message: "we're in charge."

    There were 150 Gardaí drafted to provide security for the bloody invisible man in Shannon last week. I agree with many posters here who point out that we know exactly who the scumbags are. I even know, and I only get home the odd wet weekend these days. You wouldn't need 150 Gardaí to tail and document these fuckers and their every move. Cut off their air supply. This is not rocket science. And it brings me straight back to my question. Why isn't this being sorted?

    We can afford to pull hundreds of Gardaí and send them off to Rossport to throw villagers down ditches. The villagers haven't so much as spat at anyone. People are dying in Limerick!

    Allow me to answer my own question. This is not being fixed, because if it were, the good folks of Limerick would be able to have a good look around and see that Limerick is a big prison. The vast majority are in hock up to their eyeballs. Their children are being educated to the point of illiteracy. If you're sick you can fuck off and die. And if you want a job you can beg for it so that you can malnurish your loved ones. If we weren't so afraid that the prick across the road was going to rape us, our spouses, our children, the family dog, rob us afterwards and then shoot us all for good measure, we'd look around and see the sewer that we've been crapped into.

    Apologies for the expletives, but there's no fuckin' nice way to say it.
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