Councillor Long responds to criticism of “migrants” comments

Councillor Jim Long, in the true style of a politician, responded this Thursday to criticism of his comments about migrants in Monday’s Limerick Leader by, well, not responding to them really.

The criticism was that Councillor Long spuriously claimed that migrant workers contributed nothing to the local economy.

Rather than deal with the criticism, he went off on a rant about the Nice Treaty (which his party supported) and the proliferation of Western Union outlets.

Lets take a look at the original quote from Monday’s paper

Following the announcement last Thursday, Fine Gael Cllr Jim Long was critical of the Government in opening the floodgates to migrant workers. Cllr Long said the thousands of migrant workers in Limerick city have transferred hundreds of million of euro out of the country and believes “the vast majority of migrant workers have not contributed to the city.

They have the opportunity to leave the country at will, but 60 per cent of the workers in Dell have mortgages and these are the people we have to protect,” said Cllr Long.

Thousands of “migrant workers” have “not contributed to the city.” This statement does not need any context.

The criticism is that if they were workers, migrant or otherwise, they have contributed to the city, and indeed the country, through their PAYE if they are working in a shop or a factory, and through commercial rates if they own their own business. After their taxes and bills are paid, what they do with the rest of their money is their own business.

From the letters to the Editor page of the Limerick Leader, County Edition under the heading “An Open Letter to Cllr Jim Long over migrant workers.” comes this, the core of why his statement was stupid.

As for your assertion that these workers have not contributed to the city; these people have paid their taxes, (and therefore helped to pay your wages) these people have paid rents, spent some of their wages in city businesses, set up businesses therefore paying city rates, and corporation tax. Saying that these people contribute nothing to the city is balderdash and disgraceful. – Charles St. George in a Letter to the Limerick Leader, 15 January 2009

And now to pick apart Councillor Long’s irrelavent response:

I gave more than a couple of lines to the reporter. As a matter of fact, I have in the past defended migrant workers in relation to exploitation. Twelve months ago I addressed the Polish Ambassador in the company of hundreds of polish people. This addres was followed up with positive advice as to their working rights and others’.

How very noble of you to defend migrant workers in relation to exploitation, however, your work in this area is not in question. What is in question is the one line you gave to the reporter that was false. “they contribute nothing to the city.” This statement cannot be construed as being taken out of context.

I am certainly not inciting racist remarks, The Government, after the Nice Treaty was passed, opened the floodgates to migrant workers, thus creating the race to the bottom, I take your comments, but the facts are that a number of Western Union offices were opened in the last two years (this meant only one thing in my opinion)

Western union is a company which facilitates the transfer of money around the world quickly and easily. But it was not the only company to open “a number of outlets around the city over the past two years,” and it isn’t incontravertible proof that foreign workers are “not contributing” to the city. Does Councillor Long think that foreign workers are putting everything they earn into and envelope at Western Union, and surviving with no food, lodging, or clothing? His statement may not be racist, but it is idiotic, populist garbage, which will only appeal to the most uninformed, uneducated individuals. A nice populist statement like that has only one purpose, get the sheeple to vote for you in the local elections in six months time. It doesn’t matter if the statement is true or not, as long as the masses believe it to be true.

The facts are that by nature migration is governed by good and plentiful times, these times are gone. I know hundreds of local people who will not be able to exist or pay their bills and mortgages and have no choice but to forgo what they aspire to in life. I make no apology for calling for these people to be protected by the state or otherwise. Unlike migrant workers, they cant pull up and go.

You are not being asked to apologise for calling on the state to protect Irish workers. You are being asked to apologise for the false claim that migrant workers contribute nothing to the city, because they do contribute.

The last paragraph of Councillor Long’s response is irrelavent, stating that over a hundred people expressed the same viewpoint as him, and that the writer of the initial letter should go through the Boston archives and compare how Irish were treated abroad to how foreign nationals were treated here..

I might also add that allowing migrants to send money home is not the sole purpose of Western Union. As an Irish national I have found it extremely handy when buying or selling second-hand items in places like ebay or adverts.ie. Councillor long should also do some comparing of his own. He should compare how foreign nationals sent money to their families back home to a time when Irish people abroad sent money back home.

  • monty
    there is merit in what he said, but seems very forceful in his comments, in fairness i do not find migrant people socialising in great numbers if at all, as a matter of fact they choose to purchase NOT in the irish stores, but the cllr did point out the vast number and not all
  • From Limerick, with love
    As a friend of me says: "Only when all the Irish people that are living and working in EEUU, Canada, Australia or UK come back to Ireland, only then, I will listen advises about going back to my country of origin"
  • Hoof
    For all they do, and the non-existent powers they have, I'd be more inclined to do without the drain these 17 self-serving wannabees are on the city's finances.

    Of course the call would go out about the democratic deficit, but in all honesty, what useful purpose do the Councillors serve. Their only interest is in re-election. At €21,000 each per annum and who knows what extra for the Mayor its looking like an unaffordable luxury.

    An elected Mayor, for a four-year term with some input into the running of the City, assisted by 4 elected (1 from each ward) councillors would suffice instead of that talking shop.
  • monty
    have faith it wont happen
  • Diarmuid
    Hi,

    Here in Limerick City we could do with 6 less councillors than the 17 we presently have. This is well above the national Councillor to Resident ratio which is 1/4800

    We have 17 councillors trying to represent the needs of 54,000 people = (1/3170) . Fingal in Dublin has a ration of 1/10000

    Its no wonder nothing gets done with all the squabbling that goes on. This is democracy gone wrong and the results abound.

    This should be brought to light before the june elections.

    If we make cuts in the public service , let it be right across the board including polticians


    Diarmuid
  • Polonius
    Cllr. Long is off my Christmas card list and ballot paper, but he has been for some time. Am I correct in thinking that he belongs to FG? Is there a theme here of emerging xenophobia? "Send them home, pay them to go home " as articulated by Vlad on thir frontbench. The scheme Vlad and, I think Hayes, supported as "rolled out" in Spain, appears to have been a complete flop. New times; race, etnicity and other dubious concepts and false constructions need to be challenged.
  • monty
    funny you are christmas now you must be one of the ones in question
  • ronaldo
    I'm here watching Hancock and I'm like what the fuck Dellboy??? Clearly the poles have rights, especially the men, but especially the women, ya know??

    Blahrgh speaks of "A trick often performed by the poles". like if they are so good at tricks, why are they not in the circus? Jesus like, i know that the majority of the polish are thieves according to Langerladd, but really like, what the fuck Dellboy??

    Anyway what i'm tryign to say is that Charles st George is taking way too much LSD to be "cool", Bishop McGee's resignation will be the eventual knee-jerk reaction to "the flight of the poles" And Dellboy... Fuck it Dellboy, ur sexist remarks in realation to polish women not being allowed leave??? what are u on about, seriously??? Slave labour and back-breaking hard graft with no tea break have been long abolished, thats what unions are for, get with the programme?
  • Dellboy
    Let the Polish men go home. But the Polish women should not be allowed leave.
  • irishshogun
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

    says it all, watch the whole episode for context
  • Largeladd
    The government have stopped paying welfare entitlements through the bank if you don't already get paid that way you can't apply for it in future, this measure was introduced to stop foreign people from claiming here flying home and taking the money out with there bank card. I wouldn't agree with it but it is a fact.
  • feck this
    now that dell is gone, 1,900 immediate people need work, have bill, dole is too small. People are going to be aggressively seeking jobs.

    We noticed the polish 5 years ago, we said (not loudly of course) that u were taking our jobs. Its only now when there are no jobs to be had that u hear it alot louder!

    irish people are going to start seeking chipper/cleaner/binman jobs now in limerick, 1,900 is a massive now people, the need to go somewhere, i do worry about the irish/polish relationship now going forward.

    we knew polish were taking jobs 5 years ago but now that jobs are becoming more scarce who knows how things will play out. its going to get messy i think.
  • Prop
    Blahrgh what were the "all sorts of benefits" that the Polish sent home? Have you proof the Poles and Lithuanians brought their families to Ireland to claim benefit and then sent them home? Or did you hear this from a friend of a friend who swears it's true? As for what the Poles contributed to Limerick, imo they enriched our culture or at least the culture of those of us whose mind were broad enough to be opened.

    Dod you ever live any where outside Ireland? I lived in London in the 80s/90s and knew many Irish who signed on in several London boroughs and worked at the same time. The money sent home by emigrants in the 50s/60s formed the basis of the Celtic Tiger.
  • Charles st George
    Blahrgh, it would appear that you have not bothered to read the letter. It was stated that "these people have paid their taxes, (and therefore helped to pay your wages) these people have paid rents, spent some of their wages in city businesses, set up businesses therefore paying city rates, and corporation tax".

    Now can you please tell me what great things Irish people have done other than what I've stated above to contribute to the city. As I'm sure you are well aware there are plenty of homegrown leeches who have been availing of welfare payments. I wonder would Cllr Long be so quick to talk about the Irish that have made no contribution to the city.

    As for your assertions that Poles often bring over their whole families over and send their welfare payments home; we've heard these claims over and over again and I have yet to see any evidence produced to prove this. If you're just spouting unsubstantiated hearsay that you've heard in the pub I suggest you stop peddling this rubbish.
  • the point
    I wonder where they learned that from!!!
  • el polaco
    We do eat (not swans) so we buy food, we do drink so we do buy drink, we need place to live so we pay rent, we need transport so we buy petrol or use public transport - maybe you are not aware but there is tax called VAT on all of those things and we pay this tax also. There is no need to bring family to Ireland to get child benfits as there is EU law that allow us to get it even if our children are in Poland - we pay taxes here so we are entitled to get it. Listen, we are here last 5 years and it looks like you only notice us few moths ago...
  • Blahrgh
    In fairness, despite the racism the councillor may be onto something. What have the poles contributed to Limerick apart from working in either delis or dell? And lets not forget while they were here they were getting all sorts of benefits that they then sent back home.
    A trick often performed by the poles is bringing the family over, registering everyone for benefits and then sending them back to poland or lithuania where the cost of living is lower... bye bye taxpayer money!
  • monty
    he is not racist he speaks for many with forked tounge and must be commended
  • the point
    d56 it has being discussed a 1000 times before about the NINA story,it was all hearsay an no proof
  • Hoof
    It was the Irish, Swedes and Brits who opened their doors, in fact if you were looking for a job in Poland (and probably a few of the other new Member States), you still require a work permit as they didn't have to reciprocate.

    In any case, although its believed that sign was put up as a prank, with a €3 per hour standard rate of pay, no Polish-speaking Irish people would apply!.

    @mailman. I don't subscribe either to the notion that the Irish are any lazier than Polish workers. That certain employers have chosen not to employ Irish workers is as inexcusable as it would be were they to discriminate on any other grounds.

    But the perception of a harder working, cheaper, more compliant migrant as opposed to a Bolshie local has gained ground in certain sectors and tbh there's little can be done when it comes to telling business who they can employ or not. The only danger those employers may face is that should the downturn continue, migrant workers with no firm roots here have a tendency to move to where the work is, and probably will. Such bosses could then find native workers reluctant to commit themselves to staying with such a fickle employer.

    From what admittedly little experience I've found. The Polish workers are (much as any migrant such as the Irish were in say, Australia) extremely keen, willing to do overtime and are anything but "lippy".....for the first six to twelve months. By then, be it out of habit or seeing that they were doing all the work for the same pay as anyone else, some, not all, would tend to take longer breaks, develop Monday morning flu and agitate for better pay and conditions - much the same as some locals might.

    There are good Irish, Polish or whatever hard working people all over.
    By the same token, you'll find drones of every shade too. The only reason you might not see many lazy Poles or Slovaks here is because, like our ones, they'd prefer to live of their own land rather than seek work.
  • hazel
    true for you and well said d56
    who defened the irish against racisim then
    our lovely government kept very quiet
  • Mailman
    'No Irish need apply'

    I heard that one but I really don't believe it. Are there tons of Irish people going there? I doubt it. It's probably a joke, if it isn't it's only a few bitter auld b*stards who aren't reflective of Polish people in general.
  • d56
    did anyone else see the article in one of the sunday papers a few weeks ago. They were talking about how jobs were being advertised in poland with the caption. "no irish need apply".
    now ive gotnothing against any polish person but if this is true then there is something seriously wrong here..,.
  • Mailman
    Some good points here some bad ones. Hoof is right, why is Cllr Long only giving out about foreign workers now? He's really hoping to scrap the very bottom of the barrel for a few votes here, 'Maybe if I give out about foreigners then the scumbags on the way to the off licence will stop off and vote for me.' That been said there is some truth to what he's saying, and immigration has not had a positive effect on this country. Up to a few years ago Irish people did work as cleaners and binmen and they did work in fast food restaurants, newsagents, factories and so forth. Did ye ever wonder why they don't work those jobs now? If you investigate you'll find that the answer isn't as simple as 'They're all lazy.' I first met my wife in 1996 when she worked in a chipper, it was all Irish working there and none now. The last Irish woman working left there nearly went crazy cause there was nobody to talk to as everyone was speaking in Polish. She finally left on a invalidity claim (a bogus one) and says that there's no place in the city she'd work now. She wouldn't be taken on anyway cause there's be about ten Polish girls, all 30 years younger than her, ahead of her with their C.V.s. For unskilled jobs in this city employers have a choice between an inexhaustible supply of young Polish people on one hand and uneducated, possibly lippy, possibly middle-aged Irish person on the other hand. We know who they'll choose and we know that the ghettoes we have will get worse, the Irish working class are becoming the Irish we-won't-give-you-a-job-cause-you-don't-work-as-hard-as-the-Polish class. Is this a good thing?
  • Nutboy
    Amazingly ignorant and racist crap from a councellor. It does not take long for the blame game. Its all the foreigners fault. Sure wrernt we better off in the 80's without any foreigners in Ireland. Green tinted nostalgic crap. This country is far better with the new people we have, many of whom are far far more productive citizens then some born and (in)bred here.
  • monty
    another ass h---
  • Pat
    Roll on the local elections.

    Time to replace these gombeen men.
  • monty
    yes time to re elect his likes
  • Hoof
    Good stuff Squid.

    Jim has obviously not heard of that old saying "when you're in a hole stop digging"!. Christ, I can only imagine him addressing the Polish Ambassador. I'd guess the poor diplomat must have been thinking "Who said it was all Ferrero Rocher and clinking glasses....who'd listen to this shit I have to put with"

    As for ranting about the Nice Treaty, if he'd bothered to check, 8 of the new accession countries (Malta & Cyprus being the exceptions) were not automatically entitled to the freedom of labour provisions on entry to the Union. Only Ireland, Sweden and the UK gave workers from those 8 immediate access to their labour markets. The Treaty did not "open the floodgates" as he would like to imagine, we needed the labour to fund the greedy construction frenzy that we all fed off and are paying for now.

    Not their fault Jim...ours!!. Or at least the 2 house and overseas property, 3 cars in the drive, 4 holidays a year, 5 decade mortgaged Irish people who believed the banks were their newest, bestest friends.

    Funnily enough, at that time, Jim didn't see fit to give out about the people who came here from the new Member States to do the jobs some of the Celtic Cubs and our more "relaxed" members of society who felt such work was beneath them.

    Of course now that we'd bite the hand off you to serve fried chicken, plaster a wall, fix a leak or perform any reasonable task for a fair price, Jim decides this is an opportune time to point the finger at the outsider to blame some of our self-inflicted woes on 'dem forriners!.....and while we're at it re-elect him to his cushy €21,000p.a. number down in the talking shop at City Hall - a job a trained seal could perform with more skill.
  • monty
    the facts outlinned by you are I suppose, like your brain, rubbish
  • countrygirl
    There is an overwhelming sense that Willie tash has set the bar and politicians here are trying there best to jump over it. After all they all aspire to be di*kheads that top the pole every election, if he can do it why doesn't everyone else!
    My dog could be a better politican than half the pr*cks that are in there. Look sheepish and scurry away with your tail between your legs when you do something wrong and bark at something ridiculous. Yes he is definatley qualified I'm off to start canvasing.
  • GreenRaven
    What I love to know is How much is the Councillor paying this Spin Doctor to keep his name in the local papers for the last two weeks because it seems to be money well paid.
    Thinking about it is this the same Spin Doctor who advised a County Councillor to compare a Dail member with a certain Dictator of the 20th century.
  • monty
    dont think he is paying you are you f--l
  • Jim Long is certainly a hard working man with that shovel, digging himself deeper and deeper into that hole!
  • monty
    more like he is digging you out
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